no insight here

[talyen]

As I've explained, I've been doing a lot of things around Cincinnati to keep from being so lonely. You all know I moved down here because of a great job opportunity, and with hope about L. If you'd like to read more

But I'm lonely because I hardly see her. I average laying eyes on her about once a week, but can go two or three weeks without seeing her. We go weeks without talking on the phone. She sends an email daily sometimes, but can go 5 or 7 days without sending one. If I call her on the phone, she picks it up about one time in ten (or fewer - she only answers if she's expecting the call, like if she's told me to call). There's a 30% chance she'll return the call if I leave voicemail. There's a 90% chance she'll wait an average of 24 hours to hear the voicemail.

So, I've been finding stuff to do with other people, and stuff to do that I like to do, since she's not involved in my life, and seems not to be interested in having me in hers. And obviously, I'm not exactly thinking I have a girlfriend, since this relationship isn't meeting my criteria for girlfriends. But I'm not exactly thinking I don't, either, in spite of everything that missing.

But one thing that hit me tonight (out with friends at a bunch of concerts) is that she hasn't accepted my invitation to do anything in at least three months. The last time I remember us doing something I suggested was my first Cubs'/Reds' game, maybe two-three weeks after I moved here. I know for sure that in the past seven weeks, since before my bicycle accident, she has turned down my every suggestion.

And I am very hurt. Especially since I haven't turned her down the five times I've gotten to see her since then. I don't know what to invite her to that she'll accept. My suggestions have been widely variable as I explore Cincinnati and do things I find fun and think she might enjoy. I am left feeling like she simply doesn't want to any part of my life, and certainly doesn't want me in hers.

And that's not fun. So even though I just received my CAT GEEK license plates on Ohio red, white and blue, even though I've joined two choruses and am checking out a choir tomorrow, even though I ran with a new running group last night who were really fun, and even though I am hoping to bring my total number of friends to at least "8" soon, I am hoping that the economy is improving in Michigan so that my return will be more successful when my leasees' lease is up next June.

(and if you'd like to give advice, let me know if you think I should stop accepting her invites. We simply don't talk, we don't see each other much and she won't answer the phone, so i haven't figured out how to broach emotional topics on the rare opportunities I get with her -- she wants to 'just have fun' sometimes, and sometimes it's just hard to start a topic when I haven't spoken with her in two weeks. in other words, yes, i know that we should talk about this together, and i would love to do that, and find out what might be going on, but i don't know how to make that possible.)

Comments

[netmouse.livejournal.com]

hmm.. sorry to hear you're having trouble staying in touch with the person you most hoped to be in touch with.

Is it possible to schedule a phone conversation with her through email? I know it can feel awkward to do things by email when you really want to talk to someone, but you could also try, instead of a specific invitation, just sending her a note that says you'd really like to chat or hang out sometime, and that you're not sure what to suggest - what would she like to do?

If you still enjoy being with her, I wouldn't stop accepting her invites - that's punishing yourself, I think. But it sounds like maybe you do need to have a conversation about what kind of communication and frequency of contact you hope for in order to feel connected to her. Also, next time you do get together with her, maybe you could try to schedule the next time ("When can I see you again?") while she's right there with you?

good luck. *hug*

[talyen.livejournal.com]

Is it possible to schedule a phone conversation with her through email?

If I write something in email that she doesn't want to respond to, she simply doesn't respond. For days. But I like your suggestion of asking her what she'd like to do. When I invited her (for the second time) to the hockey game opening night, she finally responded that it was too soon and I should invite her again the next time I go on a weekend.

I think she wants to be in control of everything we do. She'll reserve one of my weekends three or six weeks in advance, maybe more, but I can't ask her to do something the same day (she doesn't answer the phone or is tired if I ask in email) or even three weeks from now (i'm apparently picking the wrong activities).

I also like the idea of scheduling the next time when I'm with her that time. That's also a good one. Thanks.

[tammylc.livejournal.com]

Some people really don't do spontaneous well. She may really need that advance notice to be comfortable. Or, as you say, she may just be a control freak. Seems entirely likely.

[shadowriderhope.livejournal.com]

*hugs* I'm sorry that this has turned out so differently from what you'd hoped, and I hope things improve. I wish I had better suggestion, but what netmouse says sounds about right.

I agree with her that stopping accepting her invites would just be punishing yourself - *if* you're enjoying being with her.

Best wishes to you...

[talyen.livejournal.com]

Thanks. No reason to punish myself, I'm feeling pretty sad about things most of the time already. (:

I'm still hoping that leaving things lie is what she needs so things will improve. But gods, it's the opposite of what i need, and it hurts me not to have her listening to me.

[sarahf.livejournal.com]

See, I'm more ruthless than your other commenters. Just don't try to contact her, or make an "Appointment" to call her and say, "Goodbye!" The fact that you have to make an appointment to call her so that she'll actually answer the phone should be a hint, IMO. But that's all very easy for me to say. I didn't just move to another city with no emotional backup. I brought my emotional backup with me!

Good luck! We're thinking of you!

[talyen.livejournal.com]

Just don't try to contact her, or make an "Appointment" to call her and say, "Goodbye!"

Sometimes I think about doing this, believe me. I try to be understanding, that she wants me to accept her for how she is now, which is wanting to be able to do things her way, but she's not participating in a relationship, and that's something I want. So you bet I consider this, on a daily basis when I'm as hurt as I am for the last two months.

[tammylc.livejournal.com]

You've hit upon the big thing here - she's not particiating in the relationship. She wants to have her cake and eat it too. By agreeing to her invitations and such without require accountability in response, you're letting her get away with that behavior. And I totally understand why you are doing that, and I'm not saying it's anything negative about you, but that's seems like the pattern as it's playing out. You need to find a way to break that pattern, so she can't keep taking without giving anything back.

[talyen.livejournal.com]

I've had two thoughts about breaking the pattern:

1. am I not giving her credit when she gives? am I missing something that she gives, so she gives less when I miss it?

2. how can I be more accepting so she gives more? or is it the opposite, which is where i've been lately: i go weeks without seeing her, doing my own thing, not even trying to contact her - is that going to help, or hurt?

Either way, relationship-wise, I'm miserable and lonely, because I feel like my "girlfriend" is nothing like. I knew when I moved here that I'd have to work to make new friends and get involved in new things, and I'm doing that, but she's sure making me have to do it. I thought she'd be there for me more than this.

[tammylc.livejournal.com]

And that is not at all an unreasonable thing to expect. She's definitely not doing her part.

[tammylc.livejournal.com]

I think she's playing a very passive-aggressive game, probably trying to goad you into taking action that she's too wimpy to take (ie, ending the "relationship" such as it is). Although if she's still issuing invitations, then I don't know what that means...

*If* you do enjoy being with her at the times when she issues invitations, and you're willing to accept those on the terms with which they are given, then you should continue to do so. But if it's painful to be around her when it's clear she's not willing to engage with you, then I think you should turn her down, and explain why.

I agree with Anne's suggestion that you use email to try to schedule a serious phone call with her. If she refuses to discuss the emotional stuff with you, then that's a pretty clear sign of how she sees you fitting into her life, I think. And if she is willing to talk about, hopefully you can either make progress or get closure.

Sorry she's being a putz. *hugs*

[talyen.livejournal.com]

The last invitation seemed like a big one, too: I went to her dad's house with her. That was a big deal, I thought. I could be wrong, maybe she really only invited me so I could set up her sister's computer.

I cry after being around her. I do a lot better when I'm not around her, because she doesn't seem to like me or want me in her life. And yet she treats me like I'm the one putting her on the defensive, which could be possible - we know I have a forceful personality, so maybe I am.

And yet, there have been times when things have been so good - brief moments that my housemate here has even seen. I wonder how we can be those two people more often.

[tammylc.livejournal.com]

And yet, there have been times when things have been so good - brief moments that my housemate here has even seen. I wonder how we can be those two people more often.

There's the rub, isn't it? You can only be that if she's willing to work on it too, and it sounds like even getting her to talk about it is a challenge. I'm sorry, hon.

[dagibbs.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

Others have said good stuff -- I've got nothing to add, but that I hope things get better.

more *hugs*

And, are you going to make it up to Conclave this weekend? Would be way cool to see you if you do!

[talyen.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the hugs. (:

I've got tickets for Tall Stacks, concert stages here, that I already paid $$ to see. I'd love to drive up and see people, though, and will consider it.

[avt-tor.livejournal.com]

I was worried that your relationship didn't sound solid enough to justify the move; I'm sorry to hear that this has happen.

It's hard to give advice because every relationship is different. But this sounds like you don't actually have a serious relationship, you just have a friend (maybe a "friend with benefits", whatever) who doesn't want any commitment or anything serious. That means you're allowed to look for something else. Right now, you don't have a girlfriend, and while this in-between thing doesn't mean you should cut her off completely, it does mean you're available.

I'm certainly not going to tell you to stop accepting invitations. I understand that a little something is better than nothing. But you're allowed to prioritize. You don't have to drop other plans, and you're allowed to ask what she wants to do, to see if it's worth your time. Not that you should do anything artificial, but it's up to her to pursue you, If she's going to set the schedule, you get to set the agenda. Your relationship is about you; you need to have a little self-confidence. I know this is hard, but the more weak and needy you feel inside, the more you have to be careful about showing it. If she doesn't want what you got, that's her loss.

[talyen.livejournal.com]

Well, at least I have an excellent job, and I needed the promotion more than I needed to see about the relationship with L (although both would have been better). After a year in this position, I'll be in much better shape to keep moving, if the job market keeps improving. Being a Senior Application Analyst is much better than being a Systems Programmer/Analyst. More political, and the next step up is management.

Anyway, that was the other big reason for moving down here - I hated my job back home. Wanting to see how things went with her was a good reason to come here, and keeping my house back home may be a bonus in the long run, I think.

[avt-tor.livejournal.com]

Okay, I wasn't sure about that part. A good job and a lousy relationship is better than a bad job and a lousy relationship. :)

being treated badly

[greyhat.livejournal.com]

http://devon.livejournal.com/424999.html
My bf started by calling less often - he was busy with his 3 year old son who was visiting. He said he wanted to see me, but he couldn't make 5 minutes a week to call or send me a text msg on my phone - something he used to love doing. When I got him on IM, he was busy in another window or *busy* playing a video game.

I was falling apart and having the worst time of my life (at that point, anyways - it's worse now,) and he couldn't offer any kind of support. I finally had to say, "So, do you want to do this on IM or should I call you?" He said, "Do what?" I said, "Break up."

I just couldn't think of any other way to save my sanity. It was breaking my heart every day that I couldn't talk to him, and it was even worse when I got ahold of him and he said he'd be right back, and then never came back. He called me from work once during that month. He replied to my panicked call at 2am, but it took him until 330am to call, by which time I had already spilled my guts to a nice person at the Listening Ear.

Anyways, my friends had been telling me for weeks to dump him, so I finally did.

I hate to point out that L is not the first gf to treat you badly. It hurts to be alone (believe me, I know this very well,) but I think it hurts you (and me and everyone) in a longer-lasting way to stay with someone who treats us badly.